Drugs

[spunkymungbeans]

Leonie, cecilia do you mind if I syart a new thread on the drug issues by 'quoting' what you've said above?

There. Started for you.

[Dona]

Thanks Leonie and cecilia..

As for his addition, I think after a year and a half since the last small lapse, which itself was after half a year of being clean, I think its fair to state that Nick is in recovery. He may not be saying all the right things according to the NA recipe, but he's doing fine.

Didn't he tell his dad that 'he just likes cocaine'. That is was his problem, not Colin's? Earlier he told LuLu that he has 'tendencies' he has to control. I don't think he is in denial any longer.

I'm really afraid this is what we are supposed to believe, but having had experiences in this area myself-


The depiction of addiction doesn't feel correct to me, I feel cecilia is right, I am also bothered by Nick not having to work at staying sober.
The whole drug issue has been bothering me. I’m not even sure I want to label where Nick is in terms of recovery, because I don’t feel that the writers are providing a realistic portrayal. It’s as if what we’ve seen is more like a TV land ‘instant recovery’. Nick has not had to work at his recovery; he’s had little trouble in stressful situations and with very little explanation goes from denial to seeing some sort of problem.

I think the point Andrea and Nick were making is if you call it an illness, then there is a tendancy to make excuses for yourself because you 'can't control the illness'. I think Nick was pointing out that it can be controlled. JMHO

Now here I must say I’ll inclined to the illness view, and although some people may have tendencies to use it as an excuse, I think it implies the need for treatment rather than hopelessness or absolution. As such, in real life I wouldn’t consider someone who didn’t recognize he was powerless over his addiction and seeking help as truly being in recovery. I find trying to control the addiction is still often very much an addicts’ response. However this is a personal belief and I can’t tell how the writers feel about it or even if they think about it.

The other thing that niggles me is that only huge problems cause Nick and Alvin to want their drug of choice. In real life sometimes small things can trigger a strong desire, yet we don't see either Nick or Alvin really wrestling wth themselves..

I'm sorry if I've rambled a bit- hopefully others will post their views

[Dona]

Just wanted to 'clarify' one thing...
I don't understand if we are supposed to believe Nick is now efrfectively managing his addiction or if the statement to his father is just a mini-step towards the recovery process. In either case, it just doesn't look like the writers take the issue seriously enough. JMHO

[cecilia]

Hi, Dona!
I´m working, so I didnt have the time to read your post (and I have to read everything twice, remember I dont speak english....) so I can be writing down something you have already said.
Yesterday, while thinking about the finale, I remembered when nick and his college fellow were talking at the incline, and the guy telling nick about the pills. So, it was more than "I like(d) cocaine, that´s my problem".....I dont see how saying this could be nothing more than trying to keep his father away of making a mistake in the case; yes, he isn´t denying the use of coke, but (IMO) there´s much more.
And other thing (sorry if i´m going from one thing to another....) that bothered me for a long time: if nick is not supposed to be an alcoholic, why doesnt he ever drink any alcohol?..they make very clear he is always drinking water or soda while the rest is having a drink....when he told lulu he couldnt do drugs he was completely drunk ( it bothered me too the way he apologize next morning: drunks hardly remember what they did or say after getting intoxicated...my experience), so he thought he was allowed to drink. Someone who´s been using and abusing drugs for so many years (since college....high school....we dont know for sure but still is a lot of time) and can´t anymore will probably end by drinking when he is going under pressure.
I dont know. I´d really (as Lambertoise said) like to see him going to a meeting and trying to help himself; not that he has to talk, I dont want a talkative-nick.... and he wouldnt, imo.....but just admitting that he has a problem and going back to his chair. Just that.
Maybe third season (if we are lucky to have it!) will be the time to nick to recover, and then start something.

I dont expect Burton to be in the NA or AA things, and worrying about nick´s recovery: that generation is more reluctant to see drinking as an illness...but Lulu could perfectly show that she is not sure Nick has over come his addictions and leave him because of that. Yes, can be more Robin Norwood than DH...but I cant buy everybody believing Nick is ok just because he stays sober. But it´s my opinion and I´d love to hear more. Since the pilot I´ve been waiting for something more on his drugs issues, and we haven´t had enough (IMO).

[cecilia]

I´ve remembered something else: in "the living", when he orders vodka for Lulu he is clearly showing he CANT order any drink for him....continuity, amnesia (I dont have a dictionnary here), change of mind....what was that?.....those are the things that make me wonder if they care about this show that has such a good and strong story and appealing main character, or just started with and idea and then turn things the way they fit the upcoming plots.....and I hate that, because I LOVE THIS SHOW!

[lambertoise]

When Andrea talked with Nick about her mother's illness and her father's behavior, I think she was trying to explain that her father had a responsabililty in his plight, not her mother. And she has a point.

I know nothing about drugs - I don't even smoke! - but I understand addiction. I could be an addicted - hell, I am addicted to this TV show, but it is quite harmless, isn't it?- but I try to control my tendancies. I like computer games too much, I used to be almost an anorexic, addicted as I was to loosing weight. There are many possible addictions. The differences with the drugs is that you need medical treatment. Does it make drug addiction an illness? Probably, but when we hear that, it 's true that it rings a little like if the drug addicts had no responsabilities in their problem.

IMO, addiction is about having or loosing control. Nick is a control freak - we saw how neat everything is around him, he dresses perfectly - but these people are probably the ones who also live on the edge of breaking down. Like his friend with the kids finder, Nick probably thought he was in control of his drug use. And that it's just bad luck if he's been busted.

His redemption cn only come with admitting the truth.

[Dona]

cecilia said:

Hi, Dona!
I´m working, so I didnt have the time to read your post (and I have to read everything twice, remember I dont speak english....) so I can be writing down something you have already said.

Do worry I can't even read a second language!

cecilia said:

"I like(d) cocaine, that´s my problem".....I dont see how saying this could be nothing more than trying to keep his father away of making a mistake in the case; yes, he isn´t denying the use of coke, but (IMO) there´s much more.

I also think that the statement was as much about pursuading hsi father against going after Colin as it was an admission of a problem. The statement wasn't really about Nick's facing his problem.


And other thing (sorry if i´m going from one thing to another....) that bothered me for a long time: if nick is not supposed to be an alcoholic, why doesnt he ever drink any alcohol?..they make very clear he is always drinking water or soda while the rest is having a drink....when he told LuLu he couldnt do drugs he was completely drunk ( it bothered me too the way he apologize next morning: drunks hardly remember what they did or say after getting intoxicated...my experience), so he thought he was allowed to drink. [/quote]


I think Nick was lying to LL and that he's really not supposed to drink, but I'm not certain.

cecilia said:

Someone who´s been using and abusing drugs for so many years (since college....high school....we dont know for sure but still is a lot of time) and can´t anymore will probably end by drinking when he is going under pressure.

YES! I've been really disappointed that we haven't seen Nick drinking at home, late at night or in an out-of-the way bar. This is exactly why what we are seeing looks like a TV land 'instant recovery'.

cecilia said:

I dont know. I´d really (as Lambertoise said) like to see him going to a meeting and trying to help himself; not that he has to talk, I dont want a talkative-nick.... and he wouldnt, imo.....but just admitting that he has a problem and going back to his chair. Just that.
Maybe third season (if we are lucky to have it!) will be the time to nick to recover, and then start something.

Only near the end of the season please. I want to see Nick feel himself slipping and losing control first...

cecilia said:

I dont expect Burton to be in the NA or AA things, and worrying about nick´s recovery: that generation is more reluctant to see drinking as an illness...

Burton saw his father drink himself to death and saw his wife taking pain-killers so he may be more sympathetic than most. (Though I agree that what you said would be more typical)
But there is only so much any parent can do. I want to see him interacting with other members, how come no one has shown up at LSP from the group, hmmm?
I really wanted to strangle Burton a few times, especially early in the first season, the way he talked to Nick would send just about any alcoholic or drug addict I know despareately looking for a high. The poor boy didn't need that from a family member.

cecilia said:

but LuLu could perfectly show that she is not sure Nick has over come his addictions and leave him because of that. Yes, can be more Robin Norwood than DH...but I cant buy everybody believing Nick is ok just because he stays sober. But it´s my opinion and I´d love to hear more. Since the pilot I´ve been waiting for something more on his drugs issues, and we haven´t had enough (IMO).

Although I think Leonie is right that we won't see any effect on Nick-LL, Idon't think it's very realistic. Addiction is a continuing problem and Nick isn't dealing with it seriously on a day to day basis.
I do agree that the show needs to take the drug issue far more seriously.

[Dona]

lambertoise said:

Nick probably thought he was in control of his drug use. And that it's just bad luck if he's been busted.

His redemption cn only come with admitting the truth.

My fear is that he probably thinks he's in control now

PS
On the illness issue, does Nick's mom's addiction suggest DH believes there is a genetic component?

[cecilia]

Guest-Dona said:

My fear is that he probably thinks he's in control now

PS
On the illness issue, does Nick's mom's addiction suggest DH believes there is a genetic component?

I completely agree with you both: he probably thought he had it under control, and had bad luck....and he probably thinks he has it under control now, as long as he can stay sober.... and yes, Dona, I see control as and addiction thing, too.
Also, even when I posted about slipping when under pressure, I wanted to add that any important circumstance can be an excuse for and addict, doesn´t have to be a bad or tense situation: they slip to celebrate, relax or.....or.....or......
NIck is on control of the use or consume, not in control of the addiction. I believe addiction is an illness, mainly, so you can´t control it.
AS for anne, maybe DH is implying a genetic tendency, but burton isnt exactly a non addict personality....
Has anybody seen an old ep of sex and the city, when a guy who has started recovering in AA meets carrie and falls for her, changing the alcohol for her?....he becomes obsessed (happily obsessed, but obsessed anyway) and prefers to be with her than going to the meetings, saying both things keep him sober....but sex is more fun...... ....

[cecilia]

I´ve been thinking about the possibility of the pregnancy and how could this affect Nick. If it happens is gonna be something huge to deal with, imo. I remember talking to a AA who had nine years of sobriety, and she telling me that even when she adored her children the responsabilities of parenthood were too heavy for her for many, many years....If we ever get to see Nick as a father I´d like to see him dealing in a real way with it. But that´s just guessing what can happen while waiting for the "canadian spoilers"..... ;D

[cecilia]

I wonder if someone told the therapist about the drug charge....doesn´t look like they did.... ...and since Burton reacts so anger(ly), they are gonna say it´s a family thing....