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Post by spunkymungbeans on May 17, 2002 2:05:44 GMT -5
One of the reasons why I like the Guardian is that it is about families (primarily) and law is only the vehicle to present it.
Actually practicing law isn't very family friendly. I know of so many really talented female lawyers who have chosen career paths such as administration, part time conveyancing, cost assessors, etc. simply because they weren't prepared to sacrifice their families and relationships to put in the outrageous hours that law firms demand. It isn't a lack of commitment to the law or their jobs, but simply a desire to find balance in their lives.
Its interesting that Burton was not prepared to make ANY concessions in his work arrangements in order to raise Nick. A woman would have been crucified if she had taken that attitude. Burton was allowed to get away with it, with some pretty tragic results.
The sad part is I don't really think he regrets it. Nick is angry as hell about the way his father treated him, but Burton seems oblivious.
I really don't see their relationship moving forward until Burton can actually say "I know the choices I made hurt you. I thought I was doing the right thing, but I can see now I wasn't and I'm sorry." Of course he won't - its not a Fallin thing to say. But I think its necessary.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Ginne on May 17, 2002 7:04:15 GMT -5
I think you're right, Leonie. A woman would be vilified if she were to take the attitude Burton did about career versus family. And yet if a woman wants to succeed in a large firm like F&A, she is expected to sacrifice everything to put in the same grueling hours the men do.
I wonder what would happen if Burton had a woman about to make partnerr who wanted to perhaps work fewer hours to spend time with her family--I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be offered partner.
By the way, congratulations on making partner yourself!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by mb20 on May 17, 2002 13:03:32 GMT -5
And before Nick too !! .. :beer:
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Mandy
Law Student
Posts: 9
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Post by Mandy on Jul 14, 2002 22:20:08 GMT -5
I 'm not really familiar with all the Father/Son problems on the show so correct me if I'm wrong. I thought that Nick and Burton's problems all stemmed from:
(1) Burton divorcing Nick's mother,
(2) Burton not coming back to help out when his x-wife got cancer,
and
(3) Burton not being there for Nick after his mother's death.
--Mandy--
P.S. How old was Nick at the time of his mother's death? Who raised him after her death?
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Post by Ginne on Jul 14, 2002 23:09:31 GMT -5
Ok, Mandy (welcome by the way :wave:), here goes:
You're absolutely right on #1. However, in the episode Family, we find out that Burton did come back and help take care of Anne after she was diagnosed with cancer.
And you're right on #3, where Burton wasn't really there for Nick. He might have tried to be, but didn't know how.
Burton had custody of Nick after Anne's death, but sent him off to prep school (Nick was 12 when she died).
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Mandy
Law Student
Posts: 9
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Post by Mandy on Jul 15, 2002 0:04:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the warm welcome and for answering my questions Gin. Prep school huh? I guess I would be a little upset if I'd went through what Nick went through. Still, I wonder why Nick became a lawyer, like his father, after he saw how much his father was never there for him.
--Mandy--
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Post by jezbel on Jul 15, 2002 6:28:17 GMT -5
I think Nick desperatlely wants his father's approval. He still wants his attention and affection. In order to get all this he leaves New York, screws up regularly, and gives Burton attitude 24/7. He's an emotional and psychogical mess. Makes the show SOO interesting especially when you consider that Lulu is unstable as well.
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Post by annie on Jul 15, 2002 20:30:03 GMT -5
I don't know the exact wording, but Burton talked about his lack of parenting skills in "Heart". Something like "I know I wasn't the best parent, what with baby sitters and boarding school, blah, blah, blah." Nick's reply was "You did fine." Then as Burton went on, Nick said "Do we have to talk about this now?"  IMO, Burton was too self centered and too driven by his career/business when Nick was growing up, but now realizes that he basically "abandoned" Nick -- both emotionally and physically -- when he sent little Nicky off to boarding school after Anne died. I agree that Burton "rescuing" Nick is a long time pattern, probably starting when Nick went away to school. Nick probably acted out as a way of getting attention, any attention from his father. Nick may not be an addict, but he has a substance abuse problem, which probably started in school as a way of numbing the pain of his mother's death and his fathers apparent rejection. He never dealt with the pain, so it never went away. Now, all the problems that Burton rescues Nick from are related to the drug abuse. If it weren't for that, I don't think he'd need his father to rescue him. Although he is an emotional cripple, he takes care of himself and adeptly handles his work. With Nick's admission at the end of "The Beginning", and his realization of the major sacrifice Burton made for him, I think we will see a stronger bond and understanding between Father and Son. This will be brought about also by what ever "demons" they'll face together in Season 2 -- Mandy, Bitchell, Caldwell, etc. I think I've gotten off track a little and made myself so sad for poor Nickie.  But that's my take on their relationship. Ta, Da! THE END |
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Post by Linda Wilson on Jul 15, 2002 21:08:46 GMT -5
Annie, I think you've got it right. One of the things I really like about this show, athough maybe I'm reading too much into it--it's a habit I have!--is the possibility of the relationship between Nick and Burton growing and developing to the point where they realize how much they really love and need each other. (One interview quoted Dabney Coleman as saying the show "is about a father who loves his son more than anything" and he plays Burton, so he should know  .) Of course, Burton is going to have to admit some of his mistakes to Nick and he's also going to have to tell Nick the truth about Anne--I just can't see someone else doing it and I think Burton owes Nick that much at least. It's only after his issues with both his parents have been resolved that Nick will be able to enter into a healthy adult relationshiip, be it with Lulu (who I personally can't stand and think she's poison for Nick) or anyone else. There's a reason Nick was sentenced to be a child advocate, whether Judge Whatshisname knew it or not, and that is to make Nick take a long, hard look at parent-child relationshiips. I think I saw that happening in "In Loco Parentis" when the little boy was talking about feeding the baby the fatal jawbreaker and said of his mother "She was supposed to feed it (the baby), not me." I could see Nick thinking that one over--there was a "So that's what this is about!" look on his face. |
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Post by zakat on Jul 19, 2002 5:47:06 GMT -5
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Post by Hales on Jul 19, 2002 18:47:08 GMT -5
As long as they don't hit each other over the head with blunt object I'm all for the complicated relationship between the two (I love those two characters). :bouncing:
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Post by mb20 on Jul 20, 2002 1:14:14 GMT -5
So sharp objects are OK then ?? .. :uhoh2:
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Post by Ginne on Jul 20, 2002 1:46:36 GMT -5
:funnypost:
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Post by justdreaming on Jul 27, 2002 12:47:06 GMT -5
Uh-OH - the pointy stick TM:firedevil:
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But that's my take on their relationship. Ta, Da!
.) Of course, Burton is going to have to admit some of his mistakes to Nick and he's also going to have to tell Nick the truth about Anne--I just can't see someone else doing it and I think Burton owes Nick that much at least. It's only after his issues with both his parents have been resolved that Nick will be able to enter into a healthy adult relationshiip, be it with Lulu (who I personally can't stand and think she's poison for Nick) or anyone else. There's a reason Nick was sentenced to be a child advocate, whether Judge Whatshisname knew it or not, and that is to make Nick take a long, hard look at parent-child relationshiips. I think I saw that happening in "In Loco Parentis" when the little boy was talking about feeding the baby the fatal jawbreaker and said of his mother "She was supposed to feed it (the baby), not me." I could see Nick thinking that one over--there was a "So that's what this is about!" look on his face.