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Post by kwintet123 on May 15, 2003 9:40:11 GMT -5
Well I have not seen this episode yet, I am awaiting the tape's arrival from the US with some anticipation, and will post more about it after I have seen it. However, I have read all the many posts on All The Rage and have a couple of pre-viewing comments.
Does LuLu even know her own mind, in SJ she seemed to be trying to force Nick to make some sort of declaration, then apparently in ATR she appears to not even understand what he is saying (is it so difficult to understand the words "I love you"). I think we can be forgiven for believing that she doesn't love him and never has. And to just, in the end say, I don't know how to respond, well Lulu, you don't deserve him. Poor Nick, how did he ever get caught up with a woman like this.
I don't believe that someone in love would totally ignore the fact when he told her he had had a very difficult day, she apparently showed no sympathy whatsoever - doesn't seem like a woman in love to me!
Glenice
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Post by lambertoise on May 15, 2003 10:43:29 GMT -5
I already wrote- in another thread (All the rage spoilers)- how I understand LuLu's reaction. I think she is like many rejected children, unable to believe somebody really loves her. Usually, these persons test people around them to make sure they really, really love them... until they are rejected again, as predicted.
When Nick arrived from his long day, LuLu was herself very sad. Drunk and sad. My own heart is all for Nick, but I could see her pain.
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Post by juliana106 on May 15, 2003 10:46:32 GMT -5
I'll be honest, I've watched the finale a few times by this point -- but only selected scenes as I find the ending (both what happens to James and Nick and Burton's brutal bonding through rage experience) to be very troubling. After having seen the Lulu/Nick scenes again and again, my interpretations are a bit different from those who post their opinions more vociferously on other forums. Disclaimer -- this is just my humble opinion.  I really do not believe that Lulu was "intentionally" ignoring that Nick had a difficult day, and had she not been working her way through that bottle of wine, and had the phone call about a job which she apparently didn't really want (my interpretation) not come -- she would've given Nick her full attention. To me, she came off as in a lot of pain, thinking that Nick wasn't really listening to her about the job, and she displayed this pain in a completely different fashion than Nick, who later voiced his emotions and ultimately ended up beating the crap out of some innocent bystander. I don't think her behavior shold make us raise the question if she's a "woman in love" or not, I think it had more to do with the situation that was being presented about the job and Nick NOT giving her a straight answer than her actual sentiments toward him. The way I see it, since the beginning, a large part of Nick and Lulu's ever-so-complex relationship has to do with timing... when things get said, especially. This particular episode just happened to be another example, Lulu walked out and let the elevator doors close at the wrong time (opening scenes), Lulu tried to engage him in conversation at the wrong time (bedroom scene), Nick came over at the wrong time... Throughout the episode, Lulu came off as very conflicted, especially in the last scene with Nick. At any other time, she can wear her emotions on her sleeve ...when it comes to other people, but she has extreme difficulty expressing her own. I'd be willing to argue that perhaps Lulu doesn't know what love is, and maybe that's why she had a problem responding to Nick. Lulu certainly didn't learn about love from her mother, who was never around and worked her own way through three marriages. From what we know of Lulu's past, aside from the date with the Yoga instructor and the gym owner, Brian was the only man that Lulu had been with in a serious relationship pre-Nick. So, a question could be raised about how to deal with a different type of relationship -- as apparently Lulu hasn't been with anyone like Nick before, or had anything like what she has with Nick. Lulu met Brian early in her college years and had been with him "like forever." Lulu thought she "loved" Brian, as he was her "best friend" and they were together for years, but it was only after marrying him and being embarassed by his cheating that she was certain that she didn't. Brian's "love" for her (at least how it came across to me) was that of a friend, and it surely didn't save their marriage in the end. He was her safety net over the years, Mr. Reliable and True -- and of course, she said she "really loved him" but when that blew up royally in her face, I'd say she'd have more than a few doubts about the veracity of her sentiments, especially *love*. And then there's Nick. To love and to truly be loved are seemingly foreign concepts for Lulu, and from the looks of it -- all the feeling and sentiment she is experiencing with Nick is something brand new. Lulu didn't just brush Nick off and say "I don't know how to respond" there was an awkward pause, and he had just told her to "forget" what he said. But, she didn't. She told him that she was glad that he "said what he did." IMO, her response last night was her head telling her heart to shut up, since she really doesn't know what love is -- that's why she couldn't respond. |
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Post by atotaltotalfan2001 on May 15, 2003 11:18:31 GMT -5
I agree with you. LuLu is clearly in a lot of pain and pushing Nick away. It seems to me that ever since she met Nick, LuLu has been like a deer caught in headlights. My theory is she loves Nick and has for a long time but is scared to death of the thought.
I really disliked her after watching All The Rage initially. But I re-watched her scenes with Nick a couple of times and started to understand her better. I suspect his intensity frightens her, especially since her own parents ( well, I don't know about her Dad, but her mom was pretty remote) were so removed. Like Nick, she is in shutdown.
This is a couple that is meant to be, but finding a road together will be torture. Which is good for us, but angst-filled (hooray!) for them
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Post by cassidy on May 15, 2003 14:53:50 GMT -5
When I watched the episode the first time, my reaction was the same as everyone else who said that LL was cruel with what she did to Nick. I was also confused why she told Nick "you're off the hook." I didn't know what she meant by it. But now after re-watching the episode, I completely understand her.
I agree with you Juliana that LL was in so much pain, by the look in her face, when she told Nick "you're of the hook." She said that not to hurt or to be cruel to him but because she "loves" him enough to let him go. Like that saying "if you love someone set them free." She didn't want Nick to make a decision to leave Pitt. and go with her to California. Remember the bed scene when LL was asking Nick repeatedly if there was a good job offer in SF would he take it and Nick could not answer her directly? I believed she wanted to take the pressure off of Nick from making that decision. She didn't want him to leave the firm and his life that he got accustomed to in Pitt. Instead, she was making it easier for him.
With regards to "I don't know how to respond" comment, I think LL was actually surprise and was taken aback by Nick's confession. She knows that Nick cares for her but she didn't think that Nick "loves" her untill that momment. And again, Juliana you're right when you said "timing" is what everything wrong when it comes with these two. Nick confession came in a really bad timing for LL, where she already made a decision to"let him" go. That is why, IMO, LL questioned his motive for saying that. She didn't know what to do or what to think in all of it in that momment. I think she was more confused than ever. I can't fault LL for that but rather I emphatize with her.
I hope I made sense.
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Post by Jennifer on May 15, 2003 15:07:21 GMT -5
Well I have not seen this episode Does LuLu even know her own mind, in SJ she seemed to be trying to force Nick to make some sort of declaration, Glenice, maybe you should watch Sensitive Jackals first. In that episode, they were in bed together. A very poignant scene, IMO. LuLu gave Nick all sorts of hint that she is ready with the relationship after announcing that she finalized her divorce. "Here I am", Here we are". No reaction from Nick whatsoever. Then in their last scene in SJ, where she ran into him, he said to her "What do you want me to say LuLu, take the job if you want and don't take it if it doesn't make sense. Just don't make it a problem for everyone else" Then theres Alvin, who seems to be eager to get rid of her. I'm trying to say that LuLu felt rejected, IMO by Nick and her boss Alvin. Then when it appeared as though she is really serious about going, Nick suddenly panicked and scared that he might lose her, hence the proclamation of love. IMO, LuLu was caught off guard and didn't know what to say. She probably thinks that Nick is there as a friend and lover but not really there as the man who loves her. I really think that she loves him, but unable to communicate her feelings just like Nick. It is difficult to give Nick sympathy in that scene where he was telling her he had a long day because she was totally drunk and in pain over the fact that she has been offered a job that will take her away from Nick. She was hurting too just like Nick. These are just my observations and of course, you are entitled to your opinion. |
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Post by bakergirl on May 15, 2003 17:02:03 GMT -5
The way I see it, since the beginning, a large part of Nick and LuLu's ever-so-complex relationship has to do with timing... when things get said, especially. This particular episode just happened to be another example, LuLu walked out and let the elevator doors close at the wrong time (opening scenes), LuLu tried to engage him in conversation at the wrong time (bedroom scene), Nick came over at the wrong time... Life can be cruel; love can be wonderful, but it is always a two-way street! We al know - I'm sure - what it feels like to be in love, really in love..........and it hurts when obstacles are to overcome. But when it's meant to be...love will survive! So, when your heart aches with love for someone, and then this person says *I LOVE YOU,* your heart jumps of joy and nothing can stop you now......not even time!! ;D LuLu could have stopped the elevator doors from closing, because she saw Nick running towards the elevator. She chose not to; it could have made all the difference. When Nick came to the house that evening - when LuLu was drunk - she started to kiss him and pulled on his belt - Nick told her he had a difficult day. She let go, went back to the sofa, and took another sip of her wine. When Nick started to tell about his day: "Yeh...my Father...uh...", LuLu cut him off and said: " I got the job." "They called an hour ago." Then she said: "congratulations to me," and poured herself some more wine! Nick answered: "congratulations," up which LuLu followed to say: "and you're off the hook...cheers!" Love is a splendid thing, and in the end you can always find time to make it work.....if both parties are willing, and truly in love!!  Love is a two-way street!!!  Love doesn't know time!! I believe that Nick has really tried hard, more than ever, to tell LuLu about his feelings, and if LuLu doesn't acknowledge at some point...........this love affair is over!...  ... |
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Post by kwintet123 on May 15, 2003 18:31:20 GMT -5
Couldn't agree with you more Bakergirl, confused or not confused, LuLu is not behaving like a women in love even if confusion is causing her not to be sure, or not to say anything. She wants him to commit or to say what he is feeling, but she is not prepared to do this herself, that smacks of selfishness to me.
And regardless of the fact that some people think she was in pain during that scene when she had too much to drink, she cut him off when he tried to tell him he had had such a bad day (even started to say My father.... apparently). Well IMO you wouldn't give someone you love such short shrift over his pain, no matter how much pain you were in yourself. She does this often, stops him from talking to talk about her own themes, usually herself. She seems so dismissive of the things that effect him. I just don't call this love.
Sorry, I don't mean to upset anyone, it's just how I see it.
Glenice
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Post by spunkymungbeans on May 15, 2003 19:14:08 GMT -5
There was never a chance that Nick would move. It was purely hypothetical. And if if it weren't all she would be doing would be shifting her problem onto him - making his inability to move the reason for the break up.
Her behaviour smacks to me of a total drama queen. The drama is all of her own making. She is up to her neck in 'supposed's, 'ought to's and 'awful's.
Nick is 'supposed' to tell her what he feels. It is 'awful' that he doesn't because that means he doesn't feel it. He is 'supposed' to be prepared to support her in what she wants. He is 'supposed' to help her decide what she wants. It is just 'awful' that he can't read her mind and tell her what she wants to hear. He really 'ought to' be able to do that. Etc etc etc
But the drama is all internally manufactured. If she examined them logically she would see that she is working herself into an state. As soon as Nick told her he loved her, the entire artificial structure of supposed, ought tos and awfuls just collapsed. She didn't know how to respond because she wasn't thinking about it straight.
She is left with exactly the same decision she had to make at the beginning - does it make sense to take the job in light of her relationship with Nick? Nick was right. It was her problem not his or anyone elses. She has to decide, not blame her decision on what he does or doesn't say.
Leonie
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I really do not believe that Lulu was "intentionally" ignoring that Nick had a difficult day, and had she not been working her way through that bottle of wine, and had the phone call about a job which she apparently didn't really want (my interpretation) not come -- she would've given Nick her full attention. To me, she came off as in a lot of pain, thinking that Nick wasn't really listening to her about the job, and she displayed this pain in a completely different fashion than Nick, who later voiced his emotions and ultimately ended up beating the crap out of some innocent bystander. I don't think her behavior shold make us raise the question if she's a "woman in love" or not, I think it had more to do with the situation that was being presented about the job and Nick NOT giving her a straight answer than her actual sentiments toward him. 
Love is a two-way street!!! 
Love doesn't know time!!
... 