LuLu's job offer

[Rosiiii1]

Some are asking just why Alvin may have orchestrated the job for Lulu - if in fact he did (btw, haven't re-watched the ep so this speculation is only on my first viewing).

Sarah and I were discussing earlier and I think it most likely could be one of these two reasons/rationales:

1)Alvin thinks Lulu will ultimately be hurt by Nick and so he plots to get her...ahem...out from under him, ;)so to speak. I recall Alvin telling Nick why he didn't think he'd make a good foster parent for Leslie in "Heart," (Alvin:"There's a reason why you're a 33 yr old single man w/o a family, there's a reason why you are the way you are." Alvin then added, "I know, because I can't do it either." i.e., form bonds and maintain relationships) I would wager that Alvin's opinion of Nick may not have changed much since then, and he might think he's doing Lulu a favor in the long run, sparing her certain heartbreak.

2)Conversely, Alvin could also be thinking, that he is forcing Nick's hand in some way - knowing he is/was unlikely to fess' up to his need/love for Lulu without external pressures. Perhaps Alvin is thinking that ultimately whatever he did behind the scenes will be for the best - if Nick doesn't stop Lulu and proclaim his need and love, it wasn't meant to be - and she's better off without him....however, if Nick does stop her from going, Alvin will have been the instigator to setting Nick on a more grown-up path.

I can see Alvin doing this (either one of these scenarios)....he likes to one-up Nick, and tries to act like the wise-old sage sent to teach him a lesson. :biglaugh: I see this Lulu job offer, as possibly one of them.

I'm sure if Nick finds out he'll be suitable pissed off...which of course may happen next week also - as he undoubtedly gets pissed off by a lot of things, so I hear.

[Rosiiii1]

Hales said:

Rosiiii, must you always take everything to heart... I'm getting tired of the snappish remarks you make at people, there uncalled for... sound familiar?

Just wondered has it ever occured to you that people are only defending their own point of view? yes have yours but don't start a fight.

I know you will take this post and give me a big big snappish retort, go ahead, but that won't make it right... I'm just asking you nicely to please not take people telling you their wrong to heart, shake it off, laugh, do anything but tell them that its 'uncalled for' as it sounds patronising and nobody likes to be patronised... yes even you.

No Hales, I won't give you a snappish retort. I will however, unlike you - be honest and forthright. There's no love lost between us, so I'm not surprised at your response. Btw, yes it will be "big," -- but hey...you asked for it my dear, by putting your two cents in, and in such a rude and personal way too.

I'm surprised that you think your retort to me actually will wash publicly, when all a person need do is scroll back to see who is out of line here.

I am not surprised that you would take the side of anyone but me -- you've done it before. I'm sure you're getting a few backslaps as we speak.

Nevertheless, I am surprised that you'd be eager to come off looking like such an ignorant ass, choosing to jump on my head unprovoked (much like bakergirl) without reading the posts.

If I didn't know any better I'd think all of this was orchestrated - as I have been playing Gilly's up as the last civil, friendly place to post on sbol, and yet strangely in recent days have had to contend with "iiiitchy," "iiitchypoo," "iiiiitchster," and now bakergirl and you Hales being rude and nasty to me in posts unprovoked. Hmmmm.

There really is no defense for bakergirl posting that 'everyone but Rosiiii has a point....that Rosiiii plays games, and lastly but not least, bakergirl's continually sticking her tongue out, using pummeling unfriendly smileys, and telling me to f*ck off.' I used no such verbage with her, nor was I inconsiderate and rude as she was, so quit with your sheep-like behavior and your reactionary sci-fi. It would be nice, if just once -- someone could have the balls to publicly admit when somebody else is being an ass. It's too easy beating up on 'Rosiiii.' Be courageous for once Hales. I don't mean to shock you - but (gasp!) it's not always me.

Bakergirl apologized the first time she did it - and now, in this thread, because I offered up a different pov, she has essentially said screw you Rosiiii, and insulted me personally again. That's fine and dandy. You want a brawl I'll give you one, but don't act like she didn't start this sh*t.

Much in the way "iiiitchy,' and her ilk want to ruin the boards and insult posters out of the blue, I see your behavior tonight as you being anxious to emulate them. I won't hesitate in telling you both where to go, but let's not act like she (or you for that matter) aren't the instigators here.

Puh-leeze, don't try at this late date to make me the bad guy - when I have Bakergirl, and now you -attacking, and laying into me first. If you want a fight however, I'll give you one.

[Hales]

Personal? huh? Rudeness? what was rude about it?

I have read all the posts thank you, hence replying to Cecilia's post, and now your telling me I only reply to you? hellooo, your not the most important person in the world you know... now if you were looking for a rudeness that was it...

My post Rosiiii was to ask you not to take anything literally... seems like you just did, laugh it off you have a sense of humour don't you?

I'm not siding with a particular person its to keep the peace, seems like your the only one who doesn't want peace...

By the way don't lecture me on rudeness, especially when you call people sheep and ignorant asses, since neither of them ever occured to me until I read your post... I'm being considered rude and nasty? Riiiiiight, whatever Rosiiii!

[iiiitchster]

Rosiiii1 said:

It would be nice, if just once -- someone could have the balls to publicly admit when somebody else is being an ass.

Hales did exactly that... somewhat politely.

[Rosiiii1]

Hales said:

Rosiiii, must you always take everything to heart... I'm getting tired
of the snappish remarks you make at people, there uncalled for... sound
familiar?
Just wondered has it ever occured to you that people are only defending
their own point of view? yes have yours but don't start a fight.
I know you will take this post and give me a big big snappish retort, go
ahead, but that won't make it right... I'm just asking you nicely to
please not take people telling you their wrong to heart, shake it off,
laugh, do anything but tell them that its 'uncalled for' as it sounds
patronising and nobody likes to be patronised... yes even you.

First of all Hales -- let me appeal to your sense of fairness, on the off chance you have one. Let's go back and quickly rehash:

I was personally called out on these boards by bakergirl, and publicly told I "play games," that I have no points to make, and to "f*ck off."

I responded, not in kind -- but in a fair manner asking bakergirl what her problem was, and reiterating that I had none with her - but that her response was rude, uncalled for and unwarranted.

You post back getting on my case, saying you're tired of me "starting fights," and that I'm making "patronizing and uncalled for," remarks, and that I should not take everything to heart -- me, the person who was just told out of the blue by bakergirl, to essentially shut up and f*ck off??!!

So excuse me if I'm a bit taken aback, and miffed at who you pick to come down on. I would just like to know why - because truthfully it makes no sense, when you read the posts.

You seem to have an equally hard time doing what you requested that I do, "laugh it off," makes me wonder what you might do if I did as bakergirl, and told you that you had no points to make on these boards, to shut up, and f*ck off.

Somehow, I think you wouldn't hesitate to respond back in kind....like I did.

[Hales]

To tell you the truth I would read the post, shrug it off and move on..... sorry to disappoint you Rosiiii, but insults just go over my head especially when people insult me, but sometimes reading you insult people I care about (even if I don't know them face to face) kind of gets a little annoying, especially because most people I meet on the internet have always been really nice.... and most of them are here on this messageboard.

Just a wee bit of a suggestion, but maybe you should think about all the things you've said that would make someone tell you to 'shut up' and f*ck off... but like I said it was a suggestion.

We're still going with the 'laugh it off' aren't we? well lets just say I did practically fall off my chair when you called me an ignorant ass... why did you have to insult the donkeys? Not only that you insulted sheep? cold Rosiiii very cold especially when they can't fight back... and no I'm not mocking you, its called a sense of humour!

[cecihz]

Hey, back to Lulu´s job....I have another point....last week Lulu kept telling Nick that Alvin could use "it " against her....I like Alvin so I didnt get why she was saying that, since Alvin hadnt shown signs of being vindictive or sort of...... ....maybe it was in order to justify Alvin setting up Lulu with that job and getting rid of her....Just a thought ;D!

Rosiiii, when you said Alvin could send Lulu away to protect her....I understood he meant "addicts" (heart) so my belief is that sending Lulu away would be "overreactingly protective" and, IMO, he´d rather talk to nick about taking recovery more seriously...or how addicts change substances for sex or job...
I dont see Alvin as trying to help Lulu, I dont know why, I just read the summary, but strikes me as Alvin sending her away, just that....not forcing Nick, nor trying to protect her....all the time I had in mind the cartoon and tobi and his friends leaving Lulu to play alone out of the cabin, while she kept knocking the door....DH has a perverse sense of humor (and an unconscious mysoginism, imo....)....

cecilia
I LOVE THIS SHOW.......
(and I´m not sure I have mental strenght to survive Nick wearing a tux......:thud:)

[Hales]

Sure you do Cecilia, think of Nick naked or nearly naked then remember him in a tux... :thud:

Gine if you read that don't :drool: I'll have to pass you a bucket and mop :devilgrin: and currently I've misplaced both bucket and mop /me frazzled

Also if Lulu does take this job offer I consider her mean, mean I tell you :biggrin:, but my question is why would she take it? other than because it will be a good experience for her, but leave Nick alone, in Pittsburgh... poor old Nick :shrug: /me will move on from feeling sorry for Nick now

[frickbldglawyer]

Good points about Alvin... I was also thinking about something a little more sinister on Alvin's part. I think he is jealous of the N/LL relationship, and is trying to break them up. In the back of my mind, I still think Alvin may have been LULu's stalker...Just a thought. I'm not sure if Alvin will protect LuLu. I think he may be paternalistic to her because he lays claim to having hired her, trained her, etc. But I think Alvin is professionally threatened by LuLu. Remember when LuLu replaced him as a board member of LSP when Alvin had the "happy end of a massage parlor" incident, as our dear Nick calls it? Alvin didn't like that at all. Yeah, this was a hard episode to watch. Nick is so angry - he looks like he could explode.

[Hales]

frickbldglawyer said:

Nick is so angry - he looks like he could explode.

Any ideas why Nick's so angry? I kind of get the idea that he feels under appreciated sometimes... or something...

[cecihz]

I think Nick is angry at himself, mainly. He has been doing everything his father wanted him to, and has little feed back; he wants Lulu to stay and doesnt know how to do it; he, now, has to be under James´r orders when he is sure he is much better lawyer....
I guess he has the feeling that the world is against him in the surface, but he knows he has helped to build the situations he is facing now. And that would make anybody angry....IMO ;D

[Garfan]

When I saw the bit about Lulu asking Alvin if he was trying to get rid of her I was also reminded of Lulu saying in regard to office sex Alvin would hold it against her. It led me to believe that he was not o.K. with the office sex and he waited for the oportunity to remove her. He did not like Lulu replacing him on the board. He did not like the remark she made of his radio interview about the church. I think their relationship had been going down hill all season.

[cassidy]

Garfan said:

In the bed scene it seemed clear to me that LuLu was fishing for some kind of committment from Nick. I think she stept out there when she said the divorce was final and , "Here I am, Here we are. " I can see why she was fishing. She had a great job offer and she wanted to know it their relationship was one sided. Nick acted as if he did not have a clue. I would have done the same thing. Alvin set her up to get rid of her. Poor LuLu was left feeling no one gave a flying flip if she left and not to bother them in the process.

My thought exactly, Garfan. And what's up with Alvin talking with the boards about james taking over LL's job when she has not even gone for that interview yet?

I do not feel she will take the job. I really think Nick will ask her to marry him. Maybe the tux is an engagement party.

I will have to disagree with you here. I believe she will take the job and NO WAY in hell Nick will propose to her. Nick is not the marrying type.

[niki c]

I beg to differ. Although I would like to believe Nick will never marry (until he meets me, of course),Simon Baker said in an interview a while ago that Nick wants to marry Lulu.....

[Sarah]

cassidy said:

I will have to disagree with you here. I believe she will take the job and NO WAY in hell Nick will propose to her. Nick is not the marrying type.

As someone else already stated, in an interview last year Simon spoke on behalf as Nick and said "Nick wants to marry Lulu."

But...what's most important -- the job. While I think that Lulu may very well accept the offer, as James and Alvin are practically ready to boot her out the door, and Nick isn't willing to match his emotional contribution to the relationship with the one he is already making physically, I don't think she'd stay in Berkeley for long... if she even makes it that far.

For one, it was made clear to James (by Alvin) that even if Lulu does not take the job, changes will be made around the office to make things a little more appealing for him and broaden his responsibilities (his space and paycheck as well).

However, it seems as if James will be getting into a fair amount of trouble in next weeks episode, so he could very well be putting the cart in front of the horse as far as his *new job* is concerned. If he ends up imprisioned, mamed, or somehow otherwise incapable of fulfilling his anticipated capacity, I don't think that Lulu would leave the clinic. If memory serves, she is under contract and her leaving is a violation.

And also, about that "board" that Alvin spoke to without even knowing if Lulu would take the interview -- well, I'd have to say that the current Assistant Director who sleeps with the probationer definitely sounds more promising than the easily enraged, bitter against the world (my interpretations from last night's episode, while I know that James has suffered a tremendous loss...his attitude was a bit much) former gang member who beat the crap out of the wrong kid. The choice should be obvious, and I don't care how long James has been with LSP.

To me, this Alvin and James working together to make LSP a better place b.s. just didn't jive.

Alvin and Lulu's relationship has been rather testy throughout the season. Even from early on, there was a bit of a strain. I do think that he sees her as "internal competition" of sorts, while at the same type being appreciative of her efforts with LSP. I think the key episodes were "Assuming the Position"(Lulu getting Alvin's seat on the board) "No Good Deed" (Lulu being sentenced a possible 3 month suspension pending a 6 month probation) "You Belong to Me" (Alvin just didn't seem to care about the stalker business and he DID have her pen, and James really didn't care much more) "Where You Are" (Nick going to Lulu instead of Alvin, then at the end, Lulu coming to Alvin for reassurance) "The Intersection" (did Alvin really care about the accident? other than her cases needing continuances?) "My Aim is True" (Alvin still didn't mention the MIA Archer) "Back in the Ring" (James' excitement over her return, Alvin's feigned enthusiasm, their brief conflict over handling cases with settlements, and then Lulu making the contribution to LSP on Nick's behalf)...need I go on? Although there is tension between the two, I think that they work well together and that Lulu is exactly the type of pain-in-the-you-know-what type of employee that Alvin needs to have, James simply does not fit the mold.

James, another note to make, is proof positive that differences between Alvin and his employees can be overcome. Alvin did rehire James and now look at the two.

So, if James' part of the story is as violent and powerful as it promises to be, my guess is that in someway, Lulu will still be very much be needed at LSP.

But... if that isn't reason enough to stay, we also still have Nick's "stunning" (per Canadian TVGuide) "startling" (per Zap2it) or "shocking" (SBOL board intepretation) confession which might just sway her decision if he says the right thing just when she needs to hear it most.

I don't think that Lulu would intentionally take the job just to be away from Nick, but quite possibly because she feels NO ONE needs her (Nick or LSP -- however, I'd like to argue that perhaps Nana still needs her around, though Nana could always reappear next season to add to the drama.) While it would've been nice for Alvin to say "gee, I'd really like it if you stayed here -- ya know we need ya"... I think Nick is who she needs to hear it from. Upon rewatching the bedroom scene (what a beautiful sight it was) I've come to the conclusion that Lulu is not at all looking for a marriage proposal, or for him to even say "I love you" but instead, just to hear that he cares. Obviously, the man can show it, but I think that she needs other forms of assurance as well.

IMO, Nick appeared distracted from the moment the camera panned up their legs -- his heart was there but his head wasn't. There was passion between them, but they were trapped in an awkward silence. I think Lulu did well by making two things clear in the bedroom scene... 1. that her divorce with Brian is finalized which makes her officially free (for Nick's taking) and 2. that it was just an "interview" in Berkeley, something for her to think about. She gave Nick the chance to say something, between all her pauses and hesitations, but he wasn't able to tell her that he wanted her to stay or that he needed her there -- my big clue that Lulu was there was how she was reacting physically, her facial expressions and her body movements. Watch in particular how she is holding to Nick, like she is begging for some type of approval, or any type of verbal reaction from him. Yet, he remains quiet, more interested in "showing" her his feelings than speaking out.

That's why I'd insist he's (been) pushing her away -- pushing her away by not telling her what he feels, or that he even cares about what she decides... I think that this episode is truly meant to build up for the finale, showing Nick's world once again crumbling around him and pulling his heart at the seams. IMO, you can tell (reading Simon's facial expressions) that Nick wants to say something to Lulu, to tell her what he feels -- but he is simply incapable of meeting her need, and essentially, his own.

And, after seeing the first scene, that's why I think she didn't tell him about making the decision to take the interview, because he seemed so indifferent when she first told him -- more interested in feeling up her body than telling her how he feels when she needs to hear it.


As for the last scene between them, I don't think that Lulu was in the wrong for not wanting Nick to take her to the airport. He hadn't told her a word about what he thinks about the job till that moment, when he blew up and told her not to make it everyone else's problem. For one, I think she'll greatly misinterpret his remark and beyond that, I think she was extremely hurt...her face with the slamming of the door said it all. Don't get me wrong, Nick was hurting as well and had fair reason to be angry -- but this is where is emotional disabilities are really going to lead to his disability when it comes down to making their relationship last.

To me, I don't see so much a change in Lulu's attitude but Nick returning to his old self -- emotionally unstable when it comes to demonstrating more than physical attraction.

End rant

Sarah