LuLu's job offer

[Rosiiii1]

Yes, for those that are wondering....

Gin and I have had a private flame war in the very recent past. :wave:

Gin blew her stack, and wrote me a blistering private e-mail a couple weeks back, when I had the audacity to contribute a thought about the ep she was summarizing before she was done. Apparently that's a no-no with Gin -- and I didn't know.

Seems she was so offended at the interruption that she proceeded to horribly blast me in private e-mail about it. ;D

I told her calmly that I was sorry, that all she needed do was to tell me politely not to interrupt, and I would have apologized and not done it again. She seemed to see the wisdom of this, despite the foam dripping off her chin, but this didn't stop her raging at me however --until a few e-mails later. Bitching at Rosiiii is a fav pasttime of a certain set on some boards.

They'd love it if they could lay blame at my feet - but intelligent people know all they need do is scroll back.

Gin was then recalcitrant, and promised to stay out of my business, if I would stay out of hers. It was almost close to amicable. You see how long that lasted.

I see the need to fit in, has ruined her sense of fairplay.

I'd be happy to share the e-mails -- they're quite irrational and heated (on Gin's part).

Again, my response here was to someone who called me names, and was horribly rude to me, unprovoked. It was between me and that person. I'm sure bakergirl must be feeling quite full of herself, knowing that she can rip me a new one, and if I voice an opinion in response, she'll have her pals waiting to jump on my head.

Bullying and ganging up into mobs, is quite cowardly however -- you see, it takes a certain strength of character to go against the pack and stand up for what's right. Something you obviously lack Gin.

[Ginne]

I told her calmly that I was sorry

If I remember correctly, your reply was more to the effect that you were only trying to insert something interesting in what you considered to be one of my usual boring summaries. It's funny though, isn't it, how you seem to show up to read these terribly boring summaries. I'm surprised that you bother, since they bore you so much.

Gin was then recalcitrant, and promised to stay out of my business, if I would stay out of hers. It was almost close to amicable. You see how long that lasted.

No, recalcitrant was not the word I would use to describe this--I was far more interested in keeping you from ruining what is a perfectly nice and amicable discussion board. However, I should have known better, as you could never do anything like that.

As for how long it lasted--you started playing your insult games with innocent posters here, just as you did at SBOL. That's all. And I WILL NOT stand for it.

And obviously, I am going against the pack. I do stand up for what I believe in. I don't feel the need to belittle people simply because they disagree with me. Something you obviously lack Rosiiii.

[Rosiiii1]

Except for one thing GIN, after a perfectly reasonable discussion about N&LL and whether or not certain scenes indicated Nick came on to LuLu....your pal "bakergirl," told ME to "f*ck off", said that my post consisted of me "playing games," and said "I had no points to make on these boards."

How would YOU have handled that Gin?

Why is my response back to her in kind, somehow worse than what she said to me?

Why must I keep my mouth shut in response?

When I respond to that kind of attack, why am I set upon by bakergirl's friends?

You have no answer Gin. Because if you were being honest, and operating like a stand-up person, a person of character instead of a follower...eager to make points by publicly slapping "Rosiiii," -- you would admit what you're doing here on these boards.

But go ahead - play your little games, and make your brownie points. Just know that each successive poster who jumps in, and carries this on - are they themselves ruining these boards. Why didn't you mind your own business...neither bakergirl or I had even posted in hours...when I had to deal with Hales, and then *you*. It was between us.

Now it's between me, you, hales, *and* bakergirl! How is your butting in (along with whomever else), and also cutting me to shreds helping anything Einstein?

Be smart for a change, and butt out - if you want this to die (no matter whose fault you think it is), and if you're concerned as you say you are for these boards.

[glow=red,2,300]And by the way....[/glow]

Gin wrote:

If I remember correctly, your reply was more to the effect that you were only trying to insert something interesting in what you considered to be one of my usual boring summaries. It's funny though, isn't it, how you seem to show up to read these terribly boring summaries. I'm surprised that you bother, since they bore you so much.

Actually I don't read your summaries that often. That was a rare occasion. Really. Believe what you will dahlin' cuz it's true!

My comment during your summary, was not insulting, nor was it about you at all - it was about the show. It was quite benign too. I believe I answered a question from another poster, before you could get to it, and you had the proverbial cow, wasn't that correct?

I only began insulting you in private e-mail AFTER you e-mailed me first screaming like a banshee, and insulting me -- telling me that I was the most horrible person on the planet for interrupting your summary by commenting on an episode. It was sad and pathetic.

So Gin..quit lying, kay? It's quite unbecoming.

[cloud9]

:wave: Hi guys.
I've been out of the country (on 'cloud9') on vacation for a couple of weeks and, joy of joys, returned yesterday afternoon to one new taped episode of TG followed by last night's ep a few hours later. Both were full of lovely surprises and ran the emotional gamut for our favorite characters. Then I logged on the see what the opinions (between the fireworks eruptions. Sigh, sorry to learn about those bruised feelings---wish we could just chill a bit---) were here.

The extra information included in Nick's apology to Shannon ('I've been under a lot of stress, 'I have a girl-friend', 'I say things I don't mean,' etc.) were very obviously there to give us a view into the turmoil going on with this man.--- All he really needed to say was something like: ' You kept interrupting a very important meeting and, instead of asking you politely to remain outside until we were finished, I spoke angrily, harshly, and humiliatingly to you. I'm sorry'.--- It rather seems that Nick's the kind of person who has to be truly angry before he can show his emotions and then he's apt to over react. Some people are like that, and, in my experience, a particular man I know very well (!) is. Occasionally very hurtful things are said in the heat of the moment, but, at least, you finally find out what they're really thinking.---And I've even been known to provoke the anger just to find out what's in his head. (Maybe Lulu will have to try something similar with Nick.)

Re the N&L situation. I really don't think that L was expecting his marriage proposal or even a long term commitment. I imagine she just wanted him to open up and really, seriously, talk to her about how he feels, about their involvement, and most of all, discuss the pros and cons of her pursuing the job offer.She relies on his advise, as we seen numerous times.---But when she mentioned the job and the divorce N released her hand, withdrew emotionally, and literally closed down.

I really thought N treated Jake badly and why in the world he wants that new scumbag criminal attorney in the firm, I can fathom....Time will show that to be a bad move, of course.

Anyway, it's time to sign off and watch 'West Wing.'--

cloud9

[Ginne]

No Rosiiii, that is not correct. I had already responded to the other poster, and quite well I might add. You, however, believing yourself to be the authority on all things, had to come in and post your version of things, just as you did on a number of my summaries earlier this season.

Really. Believe what you will dahlin' cuz it's true!

Why should we? You don't know what true means--or at least you've never shown you do.

[mb20]

Seriously, people, I'd rather not have a repeat of the SBOL drama on here ... so could everyone in question please refrain from doing as they have been doing ... not forgetting that posts and/or members may be be deleted/blocked at the Administrator's discretion.

Thank you.

[Hales]

/me cackles at one comment that Rosiiii made regarding the theory

I knew you'd take the bate Rosiiii!

Sorry mb, won't happen again! I'm not a 'dahlin' like Rosiiii is...

bakergirl - thanks for the info on Simon, I live in Brisbane though, so there's no chance... ahh well I'll get over it

Welome back cloud9 - hope you had a grand vacation , and was The West Wing any good?

[cloud9]

Thanks for the greeting, Hales
....Yep, 'West Wing' was simply amazing, as usual, and ended with a scary situation----but that belongs on another Message Board, so I'll hush.

'Later, cloud9

[cassidy]

Guest-Sarah said:

But...what's most important -- the job. While I think that LuLu may very well accept the offer, as James and Alvin are practically ready to boot her out the door, and Nick isn't willing to match his emotional contribution to the relationship with the one he is already making physically, I don't think she'd stay in Berkeley for long... if she even makes it that far.

For one, it was made clear to James (by Alvin) that even if LuLu does not take the job, changes will be made around the office to make things a little more appealing for him and broaden his responsibilities (his space and paycheck as well).

However, it seems as if James will be getting into a fair amount of trouble in next weeks episode, so he could very well be putting the cart in front of the horse as far as his *new job* is concerned. If he ends up imprisioned, mamed, or somehow otherwise incapable of fulfilling his anticipated capacity, I don't think that LuLu would leave the clinic. If memory serves, she is under contract and her leaving is a violation.

And also, about that "board" that Alvin spoke to without even knowing if LuLu would take the interview -- well, I'd have to say that the current Assistant Director who sleeps with the probationer definitely sounds more promising than the easily enraged, bitter against the world (my interpretations from last night's episode, while I know that James has suffered a tremendous loss...his attitude was a bit much) former gang member who beat the crap out of the wrong kid. The choice should be obvious, and I don't care how long James has been with LSP.

To me, this Alvin and James working together to make LSP a better place b.s. just didn't jive.

Alvin and LuLu's relationship has been rather testy throughout the season. Even from early on, there was a bit of a strain. I do think that he sees her as "internal competition" of sorts, while at the same type being appreciative of her efforts with LSP. I think the key episodes were "Assuming the Position"(LuLu getting Alvin's seat on the board) "No Good Deed" (LuLu being sentenced a possible 3 month suspension pending a 6 month probation) "You Belong to Me" (Alvin just didn't seem to care about the stalker business and he DID have her pen, and James really didn't care much more) "Where You Are" (Nick going to LuLu instead of Alvin, then at the end, LuLu coming to Alvin for reassurance) "The Intersection" (did Alvin really care about the accident? other than her cases needing continuances?) "My Aim is True" (Alvin still didn't mention the MIA Archer) "Back in the Ring" (James' excitement over her return, Alvin's feigned enthusiasm, their brief conflict over handling cases with settlements, and then LuLu making the contribution to LSP on Nick's behalf)...need I go on? Although there is tension between the two, I think that they work well together and that LuLu is exactly the type of pain-in-the-you-know-what type of employee that Alvin needs to have, James simply does not fit the mold.

James, another note to make, is proof positive that differences between Alvin and his employees can be overcome. Alvin did rehire James and now look at the two.

So, if James' part of the story is as violent and powerful as it promises to be, my guess is that in someway, LuLu will still be very much be needed at LSP.

But... if that isn't reason enough to stay, we also still have Nick's "stunning" (per Canadian TVGuide) "startling" (per Zap2it) or "shocking" (SBOL board intepretation) confession which might just sway her decision if he says the right thing just when she needs to hear it most.

I don't think that LuLu would intentionally take the job just to be away from Nick, but quite possibly because she feels NO ONE needs her (Nick or LSP -- however, I'd like to argue that perhaps Nana still needs her around, though Nana could always reappear next season to add to the drama.) While it would've been nice for Alvin to say "gee, I'd really like it if you stayed here -- ya know we need ya"... I think Nick is who she needs to hear it from. Upon rewatching the bedroom scene (what a beautiful sight it was) I've come to the conclusion that LuLu is not at all looking for a marriage proposal, or for him to even say "I love you" but instead, just to hear that he cares. Obviously, the man can show it, but I think that she needs other forms of assurance as well.

IMO, Nick appeared distracted from the moment the camera panned up their legs -- his heart was there but his head wasn't. There was passion between them, but they were trapped in an awkward silence. I think LuLu did well by making two things clear in the bedroom scene... 1. that her divorce with Brian is finalized which makes her officially free (for Nick's taking) and 2. that it was just an "interview" in Berkeley, something for her to think about. She gave Nick the chance to say something, between all her pauses and hesitations, but he wasn't able to tell her that he wanted her to stay or that he needed her there -- my big clue that LuLu was there was how she was reacting physically, her facial expressions and her body movements. Watch in particular how she is holding to Nick, like she is begging for some type of approval, or any type of verbal reaction from him. Yet, he remains quiet, more interested in "showing" her his feelings than speaking out.

That's why I'd insist he's (been) pushing her away -- pushing her away by not telling her what he feels, or that he even cares about what she decides... I think that this episode is truly meant to build up for the finale, showing Nick's world once again crumbling around him and pulling his heart at the seams. IMO, you can tell (reading Simon's facial expressions) that Nick wants to say something to LuLu, to tell her what he feels -- but he is simply incapable of meeting her need, and essentially, his own.

And, after seeing the first scene, that's why I think she didn't tell him about making the decision to take the interview, because he seemed so indifferent when she first told him -- more interested in feeling up her body than telling her how he feels when she needs to hear it.


As for the last scene between them, I don't think that LuLu was in the wrong for not wanting Nick to take her to the airport. He hadn't told her a word about what he thinks about the job till that moment, when he blew up and told her not to make it everyone else's problem. For one, I think she'll greatly misinterpret his remark and beyond that, I think she was extremely hurt...her face with the slamming of the door said it all. Don't get me wrong, Nick was hurting as well and had fair reason to be angry -- but this is where is emotional disabilities are really going to lead to his disability when it comes down to making their relationship last.

To me, I don't see so much a change in LuLu's attitude but Nick returning to his old self -- emotionally unstable when it comes to demonstrating more than physical attraction.

End rant

Sarah

Whoops! Boy oh boy!....SARAH, what an amazing analysis, very precise and true to the form of all the characters involved in your post. Thank you for sharing your "ranting". It's very eye opening (if that's make sense)

As someone else already stated, in an interview last year Simon spoke on behalf as Nick and said "Nick wants to marry LuLu."

That just it, SB said what he believed Nick wants, but to a show's viewer like me who did not read the interview, that is what i see about Nick....Not a marrying type. We all know that he has intimacy issue( though he denied it) and that a simple phrase " I care"... was even hard for him to say even to the one person he supposedly "in-love" with. What more... the "I love you and I want to marry you"? Believe you me... I'll be jumping up and down for joy if that happens, but I don't see it. I don't think Nick is capable of commiting himself in marriage to anyone. He needs to work on his intimacy issue(LL"S words) first and have a real emotional connection with anyone before he could commit to someone.JMHTGO.

[niki c]

SB said Nick wants to marry LuLu, but he didn't say Nick is ready in any way for that, or that he will even ask her.

I agree with you completely. Nick is far from ready for marriage. But I think somewhere inside he wishes he was.......